Should I Update To 2.2.14?

Hamoff

Hamoff

Member
I Dont Know If My Data Will Transfer From 2.2.13 To 2.2.14.

Im On A Mac Computer So I Dont Know If Its Different To Transfer There.

If I Can Transfer I Will Port The 2.2.13 Characters And Maps To 2.2.14
 
the data does transfer from 2.2.13 to 2.2.14
 
Hamoff said:
I Dont Know If My Data Will Transfer From 2.2.13 To 2.2.14.

Im On A Mac Computer So I Dont Know If Its Different To Transfer There.

If I Can Transfer I Will Port The 2.2.13 Characters And Maps To 2.2.14
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There is no reason as to why your data wont get transferred, unless STJ applies another major update like the transition to 2.1 to 2.2, where the way the data was stored/read was even changed (thus why you had to start from scratch both gamedata and save slots).

Althought this is rather unlikely, since we already have a modern enough system for everything to help this last a long time, making it easy for everyone, from devs to players
 
Soniku11 said:
There is no reason as to why your data wont get transferred, unless STJ applies another major update like the transition to 2.1 to 2.2, where the way the data was stored/read was even changed (thus why you had to start from scratch both gamedata and save slots).

Althought this is rather unlikely, since we already have a modern enough system for everything to help this last a long time, making it easy for everyone, from devs to players
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Okay Thanks. Im Not Gonna Like Updating To 2.3 Though, But Thats Fine.
 
Hamoff said:
Okay Thanks. Im Not Gonna Like Updating To 2.3 Though, But Thats Fine.
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I mean, to be fair 2.3 its gonna be a HUGE pain in the ass for modders for plenty of reasons.

-UDMF is gonna be the standard, and Binary will be no longer supported (meaning 90% of the whole Srb2 history with maps will need to be gone)

-Sprites are gonna work differently, using json files (meaning creating characters or entities will take longer than just adding the sprite, renaming it to the correct lump name, and converting it to DoomGfx)

-(Im not 100% sure about this) Checkpoints in race are gonna be more complex and harder to setup, including the need of doing some scripting.

And possibly many other more issues and changes that might make life way harder than ig already is for us modders.
 
Soniku11 said:
I mean, to be fair 2.3 its gonna be a HUGE pain in the ass for modders for plenty of reasons.

-UDMF is gonna be the standard, and Binary will be no longer supported (meaning 90% of the whole Srb2 history with maps will need to be gone)

-Sprites are gonna work differently, using json files (meaning creating characters or entities will take longer than just adding the sprite, renaming it to the correct lump name, and converting it to DoomGfx)

-(Im not 100% sure about this) Checkpoints in race are gonna be more complex and harder to setup, including the need of doing some scripting.

And possibly many other more issues and changes that might make life way harder than ig already is for us modders.
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I Guess I Am Not Gonna Update To 2.3. Hopefully SRB2 Workshop Adds A 2.2 Section For Addons (Like A Bumper Sphere Or Something) Once 2.3 Comes Out, I'd Probably Not Be Able To Make Addons Anymore And Just Retire From The Community If That 2.2 Section Doesnt Become A Reality. I Dont Know What Will Happen To Me In The Community When 2.3 Comes Out.
 
Hamoff said:
I Guess I Am Not Gonna Update To 2.3. Hopefully SRB2 Workshop Adds A 2.2 Section For Addons (Like A Bumper Sphere Or Something) Once 2.3 Comes Out, I'd Probably Not Be Able To Make Addons Anymore And Just Retire From The Community If That 2.2 Section Doesnt Become A Reality. I Dont Know What Will Happen To Me In The Community When 2.3 Comes Out.
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i mean, you dont really have to, its just that certain aspects become more complex in nature, added the fact that if you wanna do maps, you are gonna need a PC with modern Hardware, as editors like UZB require OpenGL in order to work, even if youre doing maps in binary, or UDMF, its obligatory for you to have compatibility with OGL in order to have the program even run.

And even if you retire from modding, you can just return to being a regular player, as nothing will really change for you, asides of maybe improvements on quality of life, and content, but, besides that.. the ones who really take a heavy blow are the modders themselves due to too many systems changing for modern options, more flexible, yet more complex and hard to understand
 
I had to revert back to 2.2.13 because the latest update broke mod support for me.
I'll wait for a patch.
 
Soniku11 said:
-Sprites are gonna work differently, using json files (meaning creating characters or entities will take longer than just adding the sprite, renaming it to the correct lump name, and converting it to DoomGfx)
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So basically, the end result is going to be just as laggy if not more so than LUA because of them going with Java instead. I know it's kinda worthless to speculate on what the end result is going to be, but if I'm going to have to deal with the same problems as with Minecraft due to the programming language, then there are games out right now that require less effort to mod and provide more of a reward.

If I wanted to sell my soul to influencer culture, then Sonic 3 A.I.R has a better reach than SRB2 & allows me to enter the one of the most prestieged events in the Sonic fandom in SHC. This is relevant since the western side of SRB2 community leans heavily into influencer culture at the cost of people like me who just wanted a place where I can chill out & be creative. (I should have showed up at the beginning of the 2.1 era instead, oh well.)

Soniku11 said:
mean, you dont really have to, its just that certain aspects become more complex in nature, added the fact that if you wanna do maps, you are gonna need a PC with modern Hardware, as editors like UZB require OpenGL in order to work, even if youre doing maps in binary, or UDMF, its obligatory for you to have compatibility with OGL in order to have the program even run.
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So it's a barrier to entry created as a result of the current design focus on improving graphical quality. I'm gonna say it straight-up: the upgrades to graphics tend to have diminishing returns on investment. It's the main reason why I never jumped on the Mania sprite art style bandwagon either, art style & competent art direction are generally more valuable to improving graphics than upgrading graphical fidelity. I stuck to wanting to invest on a style of my own instead, for better or worse.

Considering that lot of the details surrounding UDMF are still either undocumented or poorly documented (The influencer cliques are often incentivized to keep the knowledge they have secret to protect their positions in a given social structure.), it's likely the modding scene will be reduced to just the influencer cliques by retiring binary. SRB2 modding scene has already been having problems retaining the newbies,

Hamoff said:
Hopefully SRB2 Workshop Adds A 2.2 Section For Addons (Like A Bumper Sphere Or Something) Once 2.3 Comes Out, I'd Probably Not Be Able To Make Addons Anymore And Just Retire From The Community If That 2.2 Section Doesnt Become A Reality.
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I have a feeling a lot of other people share this sentiment, it's precisely because of how simple the current system is why we got an influx of people into the community in the first place. Of course, it also helped create the influencer cliques we have influencing the very development of SRB2 now, but such is the nature of trade-offs.

I personally think Sandwichface screwed the pooch by focusing so much on the actions of the new additions to the moderation & dev team when he could have probably gained more support by focusing on how these cliques throw their weight around and how that would shape the perception of anyone trying to get into the community proper. As a result of the whole fallout surrounding that can of worms I will not be getting into here, people like you have been left without a proper voice to deliver these sentiments.

But I think this is enough of my rambling for the day. Like I said in the post I made last year, I wanted to distance myself from the goings-on with SRB2, specifically the western art community side of it, because I want to prioritize the RL connections I've made. There's a pretty significant push in the local area for proper hobbyist environments for games be developed that is going to require my attention.
 
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Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Mania style either. They're just the same art style as the Mega Drive games but shinier.

If that's the case, then 2.3 would make modding hard by using Java of all things (which I know where this is going), then this is the first time there would be an option, like in Minecraft with its versions when it comes to modding. It also gives other previous versions a shot and more community-driven servers with no ties to the master server whatsoever. The game would finally be decentralized for good out of developers' foolish actions.

Which, speaking of which, I think the whole reason they switch to Java is because they are aware that they are breaking the GPL rules, so they must have a way to escape this situation, or else they'll be in deep trouble.

You see, every LUA script is technically GPL, and the entire SRB2 is licensed as such; even SSNTails himself said so.
1713895235775

What makes it interesting is when you read the FAQ of the Version 2 of GNU GPL, and it says this:
1713895264039

To add more to the argument, SRB2's C functions are called by LUA, which binds the former. They are connected together.

Nowadays, most LUA mods that use C functions are written within the GPL (addhook as an example is under it), meaning that anything that is created within the derivative work must be GPL-compliant. In other words, mods that use LUA must be free to edit and distributed as such. Otherwise, it is a violation of SRB2's license. Because SRB2's Lua implementation links to SRB2's own GPL-licensed code.
They change it all for the sake of the Reusability rule, which releases GPL-licensed works under different terms. Which, funnily enough, it discourages using said code that was meant to be reused because of an idiotic idea that SRB2 in general is "art-centric" and the mods are "intellectual property" (I'm not making this up, and I won't tell you how stupid it is to claim such, especially when it's based on someone's IP).
Which makes it more ironic that art in general takes and changes all the time, but I digress.

And I know full well that they are aware of this issue since there was a thread about it https://mb.srb2.org/threads/srb2-add-ons-and-gpl-compliance.41543/. (And to be honest here, it aged like milk considering what we were talking about now, the java thing and are mostly out of emotion).

I think they do it so that they make a way to work around the reusability rule by changing it to a different code that has nothing to do with any of this. Therefore nullifying the threat that they will get sued.
 
Jack O Lantern said:
They change it all for the sake of the Reusability rule, which releases GPL-licensed works under different terms. Which, funnily enough, it discourages using said code that was meant to be reused because of an idiotic idea that SRB2 in general is "art-centric" and the mods are "intellectual property" (I'm not making this up, and I won't tell you how stupid it is to claim such, especially when it's based on someone's IP).
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This is typical western art community behavior that has been intensified by the Sonic fandom. So naturally they would fall over themselves in order to be able to enforce this, and then they'll try to claim to be accepting of newcomers after they build their walled gardens.

Sure, they wouldn't be able to be sued for GPL anymore... but I have a feeling SEGA can still sue them for copyright at that point if they begin monetizing it just like with how SMBX2 will likely get the hammer by Nintendo, or that is if the americans don't do it first for personal reasons in the case of the latter.

Edit: I have edited this post to remove the mentions of political reasoning as well as to make it hopefully easier to decipher what I am alluding to.
 
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Sasaki said:
This is typical western art community behavior that has been intensified by the Sonic fandom. So naturally they would fall over themselves in order to be able to enforce this, and then they'll try to claim to be accepting of newcomers after they build their walled gardens.

Sure, they wouldn't be able to be sued for GPL anymore... but I have a feeling SEGA can still sue them for copyright at that point if they begin monetizing it just like with how SMBX2 will likely get the hammer by Nintendo if the americans don't do it first for political reasons,
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Sonic fandom always had it's hilarious "OC donut steel" culture since it's very inception, however even then, it wasn't as extreme as what the Message Board does. Because I remember in some forum if you did use this random character without permission, the author would just ask "atleast credit me!", some nothingburger drama and end of story. MB would just ban you instead, and at worst they will harass you over it.

Good thing when you said SEGA can still sue them because companies can talk to each other. If GPL saw a license violation that is also using a different IP, then there's a chance that they will contact Sega to take action.

And let's not be naive to think that Sega is fine with fan projects and other derivative works around their games. Just because they're apathetic towards it like any other company ever that is not Nintendo unless it's not on their hyped games way. Does not mean you can do whatever you want with it. They did it with Kingdom Hearts music for asking donations, and they will sue STJr for reasons above. I could be wrong, but it would not be surprising if it actually happens.
 
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HOLY

I Did Not Expect This Much Talk. I Ran Out Of Wi-Fi And I Could Only Top It Up Today, So That's Why I Was Offline For A Lot Of Time, But Oh My God. Thanks For All The Messages!
 
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